If You Don't Like Opinions, We Created A Site For You

"Matt Hardigree" (matthardigree) 11/06/2013 at 08:10 • Filed to: Journalismism

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This idea that writers !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! is laughable. What's the point of writers, then, other than to regurgitate press releases? That makes them, essentially, stenographers.

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I'm a professional automotive journalist of some minor standing, so trust me when I say I'd never hire anyone without an opinion. We all talk and think and eat and drive cars all day long and it would be shortchanging the reader to not translate this experience and insight into something valuable.

Note, a bias is different from an opinion, although I'm fine with a bias so long as it's disclosed. We all have a bias towards the Miata and I'd argue that's entirely obvious to anyone who reads more than three stories on this site, however, I'd also argue our !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! is entirely fair.

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If you do want to read something without any opinion, I suppose you could read the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! we created, which is full of information straight from the automaker. However, that information also has the opinion of the automaker in it.

Ultimately, if you want no opinions, all you'll be able to read is a spec sheet.

Hermann > Matt Hardigree 11/06/2013 at 08:27

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Actual response:

As you said: If you want something without opinion, go read releases. The opinions and comments are the exact reason why I subscribe to Jalopnik. It's like buying a Whopper and complaining you hate Burgers.

Blondude > Matt Hardigree 11/06/2013 at 08:32

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The Transporter > Matt Hardigree 11/06/2013 at 08:34

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But even spec sheets can be biased. There is debate over whether or not the EPA's system of measuring fuel economy is realistic. If the spec sheet has the EPA fuel economy on it, and that fuel economy turns out to be a bit overly optimistic in the real world, then wouldn't the spec sheet also be biased?

And if spec sheets are biased, where will we get our information from? In a world with no facts and only opinions, chaos will reign supreme. Democracies will fall and tyrannical dictators will take their place. Forced labor camps will be built for those who dissent. Fire and brimstone will fall from the sky! Zombies will roam the streets! Aliens from Zeta Reticuli will materialize through a wormhole in space and time above Earth and annihilate entire cities! DOGS AND CATS WILL BE LIVING TOGETHER!!! IT WILL BE MASS HYSTERIA!!! WARBLGARBLWARBLGARBLBAAAARRRRRGGGGG!!!111!!!!1!!!!!!

IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK > Matt Hardigree 11/06/2013 at 08:34

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I defended his stigness strongly in the last oppo controversy he was involved in but I can't do it this time. He was completely out of line and I lost a lot of respect for him. An article without opinions is worthless

Desu-San-Desu > Matt Hardigree 11/06/2013 at 08:35

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*fist bump*

I'm with you on this one Hardigree. Jalopnik is my first stop for all things automotive particularly due to the presence of the human element which feels lacking on most other car websites. Do not ever let that change.

P.S. - I have opinions. Lots of them. And I'm very upfront about my bias. Hint hint. ;-P

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Matt Hardigree 11/06/2013 at 08:51

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If I didn't want an opinion, I'd go to Autoblog.
/Sarcasm, Shots fired

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 11/06/2013 at 08:53

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Yup

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > Matt Hardigree 11/06/2013 at 08:58

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The great thing about automotive blogs is that there are so many of them. If somebody is offended by one for some (really) strange reason, they're free to leave.

Übel > Matt Hardigree 11/06/2013 at 09:04

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Beautiful. A hamburger of thanks for you.

Hooker > Matt Hardigree 11/06/2013 at 09:08

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Well said, sir.

Have a Miata.

Nibby > Matt Hardigree 11/06/2013 at 09:11

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Excellent! Thanks for this writeup.

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > Hooker 11/06/2013 at 09:23

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Yes

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > Matt Hardigree 11/06/2013 at 09:23

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For hard news, yes, they should be stenographers. For writers in general, no.

But when someone tries to extend hard news style reporting to, well, anything else, just remember that they tend to fail at logic.

Writer: "So I'm writing a piece about a BMW M6 for an audience which likes American Muscle Cars from the 1960s."

Moron: "You should only put hard facts in, because you shouldn't have an opinion."

Writer: "But we are called Golden Age American Muscle Cars magazine! That pretty much gives away the ending. So why shouldn't I have an opinion?"

Moron:

(Note: I feel bad about this comparison, because the hawk is a far superior creature to the imaginary constructed moron. It's just for the lulz.)

Mikeado > IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK 11/06/2013 at 09:38

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He appears to have deleted the post. I'm not surprised. He writes trouble-stirring pieces and then when he gets inevitable shit, he edits it with "woah woah woah, don't take it seriously. There's clearly not even a hint of sarcasm in this, but I don't like criticism." Deleting the post altogether when an editor criticises it makes total sense...

Grindintosecond > Matt Hardigree 11/06/2013 at 09:47

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Matt, your idea that writers should have opinions is a good idea. Mixing up the two identities of writing and journalism is not. A journalist reports news and information and is objective therefore very limited in opinion. A writer can proclaim anything they want.

What are we being here Matt? An automotive writer who can say the cupholders in a 2008 patriot are pure bullshit? Or an Auto journalist who can say where the cupholders are and what is required of your elbow joint to utilize them? Verrry different people but both can be very effective in conveying an idea. The journo can really show how bullshit the cupholders are by describing other issues in using them. The writer can cut to the chase without needing much evidence. Cmbining them would land you on Fox news. Fairly unbalanced.

We have a problem now where readers can't piece together the information and decide what sucks and what is nice. Most readers need an opiniated writer to make sense for them. Dangerous because they let Mr. Limbaugh tell them what to think of it all.

Burrito de EJ25 > Matt Hardigree 11/06/2013 at 09:51

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What a completely idiotic post that was. Has that person ever heard of editorials?

Matt Hardigree > Grindintosecond 11/06/2013 at 09:51

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You can't purge opinions from even the most objective reporting. People have to decide what to include or not include, which is a form of judgment. Your definition of a 'journalist' is not my definition of a journalist, which is someone who seeks and reports the truth. What Fox has is a mix of journalists and pundits , who are people whose job it is to promote and represent a certain world view.

While we sometimes advocate, we try to avoid punditry when we can.

MoparKetchup > Matt Hardigree 11/06/2013 at 09:59

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The new facelift is horrible.

I'm biased towards Civics since Vtec kicked in yo! So don't listen to me please.

IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK > Grindintosecond 11/06/2013 at 10:11

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By your definition car reviews would be impossible. How can you rate the looks of a car objectively? How can you rate driving feel objectively? Auto journalism is different from political journalism, without opinion and judgement reporting on cars is worthless.

Grindintosecond > Matt Hardigree 11/06/2013 at 10:19

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(I'm accidentally arguing semantics! Oops) My journo definition reports truth through facts and objectively, leaving nothing out, and not resorting to casting light. Doing good at that lands an Edward Murrow award. Fox has some journos but the reporters frequently cross the line of opinion/interpretation. I believe the miata piece was correct. Great work on that. Getting under the skin of the deniers means your doing it right. Truth stings. Keep on doin it Matt.

Grindintosecond > IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK 11/06/2013 at 10:23

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Op. Ed. Seems to be similar to auto jurno as we see it now. At least thats my opinion as a writing person :)

Gamecat235 > Grindintosecond 11/06/2013 at 10:27

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As someone who long ago challenged Ray on similar grounds, I advise you now, let it go. I did, and came to love Jalopnik for their approach. This site works , and it works because of the opinions, not in spite of them.

I won't tell you that your opinion is wrong, I can't . It's your opinion. I can disagree with it, I can list reasons why, I can scream, post gifs, call in air support... but it's still your opinion.

If you want purely quantified data to base into your purchasing and enthusiast decisions... well, I suppose Consumer Reports fills a very nice and narrow niche. And it's hard to argue with their results ( http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/12/to… ).*

Jalopnik isn't purely news, it isn't purely journalism, this is a site run by enthusiasts for enthusiasts.

*side note, a number of the staff at CR are actually enthusiasts, and many of them get cars, they just filter out a lot of the subjective/qualitative when presenting their findings.

King Ginger, not writing for Business Insider > Matt Hardigree 11/06/2013 at 10:34

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Simply put...

We are here for the stories. We are here for your opinions. We are here because you, as storytellers (even if it just letting us know about a piece of news) help define the structure of our community here on these sites. It is a give and take; when we don't like the direction or the changes are too drastic, it is apparent; we also don't need to be involved if we so choose.

But it isn't group think and it isn't blind worship that makes us come back. Tribes are organic and the things we love or loathe change over time and can be influenced by a single person or by group consensus. It is how cultural norms develop...and to assume that by cleansing out opinion you will get "free thought" is misguided and assumes that everyone who reads the topics at hand aren't capable of coming up with free thought regardless of the writer's feels.

Calling for opinion-free writing is basically saying that the reader is too stupid to decide for themselves what they want to believe and I, for one, think higher of the Jalopnik (and specifically Oppo) commentariat than that.

Casper > Matt Hardigree 11/06/2013 at 10:34

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It all depends what you are writing. If you are writing a personal review, opinion is critical... how else are you going to describe your conclusions without opinion? If you are declaring it journalism, then the issue gets murky. Sure, opinion will always exist, but in journalism it should be purged as much as possible from the piece. In a review it is usually accentuated to add humor, reinforce points, etc.

I can't really defend the initial post calling you guys out simply because I don't believe what you do is journalism. You are not just reporting facts. You are attempting to make personal reviews with humor and marketing blended in. That's why the vast majority (but apparently not entire) audience goes to Jalopnik.

IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK > Grindintosecond 11/06/2013 at 10:46

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Tell me honestly how you would do an car review without opinions?

Gamecat235 > IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK 11/06/2013 at 10:54

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It can be done, but it will read like the spec sheet, and will compare spec sheets of other similar models offered.

Grindintosecond > IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK 11/06/2013 at 11:03

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My orig post I discussed the cupholders on an 08 patriot. Using them takes completely unnatural motions and angles of the elbow that would result in being uncomfortable or painful depending on your specific build.. Thats not opinion but factual. I did not use opinion.

I'm sensitive to journalistic discussion. I grew up in a journalist household that paid attention to and sometimes taught calsses on j.ethics. So I cringe when journos do outright criticism without both sides of true facts. I think its happening more often now than ever but I did not study j.school. think A car review can be done with facts and conclusions but I think we should leave outright opinion for the reader in the end. I suppose I jumped st the idea of journalistic opinion being the thing readers/viewers believe...but perhaps I didnt think of how resilient the mind of the people actually is. Afterall they still buy Camrys in tan metallic....

IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK > Grindintosecond 11/06/2013 at 11:25

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Those would be the most useless reviews ever. I guess I'm incredibly happy that Jalopnik doesn't employ your type of "journalists" because that would be incredibly boring and provide almost no useful information.

Moxy > Mikeado 11/06/2013 at 12:44

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Well, give him some credit. It's probably lonely up there on his high horse....

Grindintosecond > IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK 11/06/2013 at 14:05

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There's one of the lessons in Journalism ethics. Do you cater to information for the reader or do you cater to what you evidently want...entertainment? Going for ratings means sponsors to pay the bills. Going for information means its "useless..."

I look at jalop/oppo as entertaining reading from people who have opinions. I suppose I hold journalists in different views than most. Your ideals of that are different than mine but don't go proclaiming my journalists to be useless and boring to everyone here. All I did was open a door of thought about just what everyone here is writing about.

pdthedeuce > Mikeado 11/06/2013 at 18:18

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he's fine with opinions , just not opinions that he doesn't agree with .

Tom McParland > Matt Hardigree 11/06/2013 at 19:44

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Matt,
Don't know if you read any of them comments...I would understand if you didn't due to your anger at the original post. But myself and most of the others here come to Jalopnik daily because you and the crew don't bullshit us. We are free to debate the editors and each other in regards to all facets of the automotive world. That is place is not just a magazine desperate for ad dollars this place is a culture. You don't need defending you've been doing this long enough...but it's always nice to know that people have your back.

TheOnelectronic > Matt Hardigree 11/07/2013 at 00:38

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I'd rather have "The chevy Impala is the most hilariously uninteresting car of the last decade" than "The chevy impala offers an engaging and smooth ride that is sure to impress even the sportiest of families"

Like Automatch said, we like that you won't bullshit us. You speak your mind.

TheOnelectronic > IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK 11/07/2013 at 00:38

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Same here.

Stef Schrader > Mikeado 11/10/2013 at 01:37

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Went poof, but found here: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache…